since i am sort of late to the party this has probably been beaten to death and if it has just kick this thread to the curb.
i was 11 years old in 1975 and i remember being scared silly the whole year.
i mean there was so much hype about it and the tension in the air was so thick it was unreal.
I note that our latest JW defenders seem to be in the privy a long time.Shallow witness rhetoric just can't hold water to facts and reality, Alan. They must realize how absurd some of the defenses they put up are after a while.
Circular reason, ad homminen attacks are about all they have.
Jeff
i was reading the 1975 thread, and considered posting on it, but since i wasn't born until the carter administration, i don't think i really can comment on it.
i can sympathize, however.. you see, i was raised in the truth.
rarely missed a meeting.
The answer i got was classic...the elder said 'you should be very careful about what you say and pray you ask the right questions'....
Diamondblue - That sounds so familiar to me. I was told by one of the local Pharasees after the watchtower study a few years back [in which I told truthful things about things going on in the organization, this was the start of real doubts I guess], that I was 'treading on very thin ice'.
After that I asked one of the other elders where I could pick up my printed comments for the watchtower study from then on - since the one's I was making were not in line with official politics. He didn't like that!
I guess I missed the lesson on; vat is goot for the broders to heer is vat ve tell you is goot for dem to heer!
Just my opinion
Jeff
my wifes father has just died.
he wasn't a jw but his wife is.my wife and i are recently disassociated.. the thing is, the reason my wife and i disassociated is because of cruel comments made by certain sisters toward my disabled daughter.
now my wife has to see these 2 particular people everyday at school (their 2 kids are in class with ours) now usually, they stand away from my wife waiting for their kids and walk out after us.
Chuckyy
Condolences to you and your wife in this time of loss.
Try and remember the reason you left in the first place was 'lack of love'.
I have noticed too that the locals love to hate us - I lost my Mom last year and not a single witness showed, except two that I personally invited to the funeral home [and we are not DA'd, DF'd, and I guess technically are in 'good standing'].
So, do not let them win - DO NOT LET THEM CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS NOW THAT YOU HAVE LEFT. Don't hand your power over to them!
You have taken back your lives - they are to be pittied for the state of lovelessness that they occupy. Try and harness that emotional roller-ride into productive directions -especially comfort of your wife and kids at this time of loss.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you
Jeff
i know there are mostly ex jw's on here.
i just wondered how many of you are ex jws, left or df'd, how many are still in but have lost heart?.
are there any jws on here who still believe its all the truth, go to meetings and trust the organisation?.
Holly -
Mom became a witness when I was 5. Never knew anything else. Was sooo happy to be 'in the truth'. Married, one daughter now grown - and after 45 years - 30+ baptized, wifey and I found out the truth about the truth, when we in our late 40's.
We have never been back to the KH - are treated as if we have 'leprosy' - the elders have never questioned us about our leaving - just like the cowards they are - have gossipped and slandered us so that we are fully shunned and hated by all our friends of 4 decades.
Have talked with a couple pastors of the local churches - but never attended one yet. I have a problem with organized religion I guess - but I consider myself a Christian, read the Bible and truly feel that the Lord Jesus had a hand in helping me out of the cult of Jehovah's witnesses.
I enjoy the digital aquaintances that I have made here. And am enjoying finding out that my brain still works after decades in the fantasy fog!!
Just my opinion
Jeff
is there an actual psychological term or whatever for this kind of jw tactic?.
the tactic is where they head the opposing arguments off at the pass, like when a new person studies and they get to the point where they want to make a stand for "the truth".
the person studying with them will tell them to "expect opposition from your family, this is satan trying to get at you because now you have found the truth and he's mad.".
Sometime back I read some articles on 'cognitive dissonance' that fits into this strategy I believe.
After the first few studies a person's mind is at war with itself, trying to find a way to come down on one side of the issue or the other [i.e.; one cannot believe both that he/she will be dead and in the grave as the witnesses teach and at the same time believe that he/she will go to heaven as his/her church had taught].
So a early confirmation of the Watchtower warning that persecution would follow taking in 'accurate knowledge' gives the mind a chance at that point to accept the new teaching, thus rejecting the old. Of course one could also reject the Watchtower views at that point too - and many do that. But the Watchtower is hoping for the rejection of the old - at that time, having taken a firm stand for 'the truth', most would then move on and begin to cement a relationship with the organization. Thus a new 'disciple' is born out of that process.
So, could it be that part of the 'poisoning of the well' strategy is an actual awareness of the principle of 'cognitive dissonance.'? I don't know the answer, but that is how I see it working.
If that is known at HQ, then the effort at manipulation is intentional and immoral.
Just my opinion
Jeff
i am totally confused by the new way jw's will be kicked out of the wts.
since they no longer will be classified as df or da can i get a refund on my da and no longer be viewed as "satan" by my former jw friends and family.
how will jw's know if someone is df or da if they are announced "no longer one of jw's?
Any thoughts on WHY? The DA/DF thing has been around for awhile, and all the witnesses know that there is no difference really.
Kinda like saying ' we don't tell you if he was fired or quit like we used to - now we just say he 'is not working here anymore' - so hate all that leave the same. Isn't this just a shell game?
Jeff
i searched the board but didn't see much about it.. do you think there are any elders currently serving that are only serving, or only strove to be an elder so they could get damaging and damning info in order to bring the org down?.
i am seriously thinking it might be a good idea for me since all i have to do is reach out for it and i would be an ms again, and probably an elder within a year or two.
(scary, huh?).
My wife and kids are out in service right now. I feel sorry for my kids.
ithinkisee - this is what would be of top priority to me -were I in your shoes. I was a 'child' when first my parents 'studied' and mom became a witness. Now - almost fifty, I am finally out of the Borg! It entrenches you, and even when doubts occur, you cannot cut yourself loose. At least that was true for me until recently.
I can't live your life - nor do I try to - but if my kids were young, which makes you fairly young too - I would get out, and never look back. If not for you - then for the kids!!!!!!!!!
Just my opinion
Jeff
since i am sort of late to the party this has probably been beaten to death and if it has just kick this thread to the curb.
i was 11 years old in 1975 and i remember being scared silly the whole year.
i mean there was so much hype about it and the tension in the air was so thick it was unreal.
AlanF-
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Your detailed and clear argumentation here is the clearest signal that can be sent from this forum: That those who have left the cult of Jehovah's witnesses are leaving due to intelligent thought - not insane emotionalism that drives most of the Watchtower apologists that troll here.
Your arguments were clear and concise - If only you and the countless others here and myself could have only seen these things while we were 'in'! I, like you lived through the lie of 1975 - and believed it with all my heart - I did not invent it, fuel it, or repeatedly refer to it on my own, as you stated. It came from the center of our religious universe - Brooklyn New York and the Governing Body. They invented it, promoted it, and encouraged it! Now they conceal it, minimize it, and ignore it, hoping it will go away.
May those of us who lived through it do all we can to make sure that those who didn't, can and will know about it - unlike the generation of disappointed Bible Students that lived through the 1914 lie, we have a tool that they could not have envisioned - the internet, and other future technologies that will make this information impossible to conceal.
Jeff
i was reading the 1975 thread, and considered posting on it, but since i wasn't born until the carter administration, i don't think i really can comment on it.
i can sympathize, however.. you see, i was raised in the truth.
rarely missed a meeting.
Nice thread Czar -
The 'retraction' of the 1914 generation hit me like a ton of bricks! But I remember discussing it in service with others that just had that "Oh well, New light again" attitude. I was in disbelief that the were so uninterested about such a change.
I felt great anger that I had been preaching a lie to the people for 25 years! Yet no one else seemed to think it a big deal. Of course that is the way the Society plays the game. The presented it as just another Ho-Hum change, hoping that the R&F would just quietly play along.
On an aside; I remember picking up a book in the library a couple of years earlier that had commentary on different religions - can't remember the name of the book now - anyway the author adamanantly stated that before the end of the century Jw's would change the doctrine because they would have to- or look the fool for not. I commented on that book to my wife after the event. The wall was crumbling for me then - but it still took years before I would admit I had been duped!
My oh My how that religion holds one captive - even after common sense tell you to get out!
Jeff
as i was growing up i remember that we, as jehovah's witnesses, took great pride in showing people god's name in their own bible.
we were the only religion(or so i was told anyway) that used god's name.
our bible, the new world translation, put god's name back where it belonged.
I may be way off the wall here - But in past couple weeks I have been researching religions that use the Yahweh version of the name. There seems to be dozens if not hundreds of sects doing so. But very few using Jehovah.
I attribute this to two possibilities here;
1 - Jehovah's witnesses want to stand out as special, unique, and different. This makes them appear above the rest in understanding.
2- These other groups are actually far more scholarly that witnesses.
I actually think both might be part of the answer
Just my opinion
Jeff
